[meteorite-list] A Simple Question

From: Mark Bowling <minador_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:02:44 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <530597.72393.qm_at_web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

That's true, I forgot about that.? That makes some legal precedent for claiming an?iron strewnfield.? I just doubt that?today someone would be allowed?to claim a meteorite field, especially stones, with the intent to mine them commercially as an ore.? Under the?"prudent man test", they would have to prove it was?commercially viable to find and sell them as an iron ore.? If they were wanting to sell them as specimens, I'm pretty sure that would be put under a salable (lease) status and not as a locatable mineral (claimable deposits).??There are some gray areas like when people use claims to mine specimens (but often those are in patented mines).? And I think if?someone with deep pockets, like the Center for Bio. Diversity, wanted to challenge the mineral?claims,?the claimant would probably lose?because?such?claims are?on shaky legal ground.??Specimen dealers?are small fish however and since there are more visible,?winnable cases for
 CBD, I doubt they would waste their time.

So we know that if you have a large, surface strewnfield, which is easy to sight hunt or detect, that it can be commercially viable to harvest the field for sale to collectors.? The problem with trying the leasing route is that since the Meteor Crater days,?the law have been?changed to state that meteorites found on federal land belong to the?Federal government, and must be given to the Smithsonian.? It would be an interesting strategy to try though (making a mining claim for iron ore)?and if a meteorite finder was of some means and wanted to test that idea, it?might be a case that could revolutionize meteorite laws in the U.S.? Thanks for the example, that's a pretty cool one that I overlooked!? For now I'm going to gamble that meteorite hunters on FS and BLM are small fish, and as long as I hunt along the border where they can't stop outright vandalism and wildcat dumping, I will be overlooked by the feds.? And as long as I have my hunting
 license, I can go out glassing on State land with no problems (and if I happen to find some gold or meteorites, great!).

Mark B.
Vail, AZ


----- Original Message ----
From: R N Hartman <rhartman04 at earthlink.net>
To: Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com>; al mitt <almitt at kconline.com>; Greg Stanley <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>; sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net; almitt2 at localnet.com; altmann at meteorite-martin.de
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 2:26:16 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

<<their claim was for specific minerals, of which a meteorite isn't
included>>

There were four claims registered and they were named after four planets,
Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus.? A map that I saw showed the center of the
claims located at the center of the crater.? The? plan was always to mine
for iron, the iron being the meteorite, and this was understood at the time
the claims were granted.
A limited amount of iron and oxidite (the so-called iron shale) was found
inside the crater, including some subsurface pieces brought up from
drilling, but apparently nothing substantial.

Ron Hartman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
To: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>; "Greg Stanley"
<stanleygregr at hotmail.com>; <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>;
<almitt2 at localnet.com>; <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question


> And in the eyes of the law, a mining claim is a property right, which can
> be bought, sold, used as collateral, etc. So on one hand, they are the
> property owners. But a good counter argument is that their claim was for
> specific minerals, of which a meteorite isn't included.
>
> But the whole incident surrounding Sue was a miscarriage of justice.
>
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: al mitt <almitt at kconline.com>
> To: Greg Stanley <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>;
> sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net; almitt2 at localnet.com;
> altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:27:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
>
> Hi Greg and all,
>
> Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a
> legal
> claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I
> don't know off hand if there are any other records out there of anyone
> else
> having this happen.
>
> Sue the dinosaur was taken from the finders after they went to the trouble
> of digging her up and had went through the proper channels.
>
> --AL Mitterling
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Stanley" <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
> To: <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>; <almitt2 at localnet.com>;
> <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:19 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
>
>
>
> Now you're just being silly.
>
> I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:
>
> How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the
> Smithsonian?
>
>
> Greg S.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net
>> To: almitt2 at localnet.com; altmann at meteorite-martin.de
>> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
>> CC: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
>> toethics??
>>
>> No,
>>
>> But you will have to send half of the fish,
>> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...
>>
>>
>> Sterling Webb
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> To: "Martin Altmann"
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
>> toethics??
>>
>>
>> Hi Martin and all,
>>
>> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
>> country.
>>
>> --AL Mitterling
>>
>> Quoting Martin Altmann :
>>
>>> No, where did I?
>>>
>>> Jason.
>>>
>>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
>>> love
>>> meteorites.
>>> And, yes, I like my profession too,
>>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.
>>>
>>> These are the four reasons,
>>> why I can't keep mum these years.
>>>
>>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
>>> doing?
>>>
>>> If only a single one could explain me,
>>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
>>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
>>> in the
>>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
>>> Africa
>>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..
>>>
>>> then I promise to be much quieter.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can help me with that?
>>> So far I see only, that they risk all.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteoritekid at gmail.com]
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. M?rz 2010 01:05
>>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
>>> happened
>>> toethics??
>>>
>>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
>>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
>>> Because that was his question.
>>> ...Interesting.
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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Received on Fri 12 Mar 2010 08:02:44 AM PST