[meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides

From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:00:02 -0500
Message-ID: <AANLkTika8Em_weP=xRPD7aeggNe5TzgcP4ThfDLcq=YF_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gang,

I've been sitting on the sidelines, eating popcorn, and enjoying this
discussion. I thought I would mention one factor about
pricing/valuation that is often overlooked nowadays.

Some dealers, myself included, do not sell all specimens by weight.
They are sold "by eye" and by the piece. This is especially true for
small micros and "Bessey Specks". In some cases, photo(s) and
description is sufficient for the buyer to determine whether they want
to purchase a given speck/crumb/micro. When buying something that
small, it's already a given that you are not getting the best per/gram
price, so such buyers generally only care about weights insofar as
record keeping goes, not buying. I go through a lot of micros and 98%
of the buyers don't ask or care about the weight of a crumb. Of
course, such guestimate-style valuation does not cut it for larger
specimens, and I generally fall back on per/gram pricing (but not
always).

Generally speaking, I don't care what other dealers are selling
something for. I am not competing and I am not trying to get rich,
although I am not scared of a profit. When pricing a piece, I take
into account what I paid for it, my overhead, and what I would expect
to pay as a collector myself if I was the one doing the shopping.
Historical price trends, what other dealers are charging, and what the
eBay averages are, don't come into play. That doesn't mean I am
ignorant of those things, because I still follow them and keep up with
them, but it doesn't effect what my pricing is. If I am happy selling
it for $50 and the buyer is happy purchasing it for $50, then I don't
care if dealer-X down the street is selling it for $200 or $20.

I'm not saying this is the best system, or that it would work for
everyone. But, I am not alone when it comes to this type of
on-the-fly pricing. And it's another variable thrown into the market
value equation.

Whatever the case, I enjoy Kevin's writing, so whether I find his
price guide useful or not is a moot point for me. I like reading this
insights and the dealer prices is just a little side-bonus.

Best regards and happy collecting!

MikeG

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites

Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
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EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




On 2/25/11, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I know John. It's a curse.
>
> Matt,
> I guess I'm looking at things from a beginner collector point of view as it
> wasn't too long ago I that beginner. Not too far beyond that either, but I
> digress.
>
> I think that maybe the size of the task and the amount of time involved to
> keep it up to date might be daunting for one and unprofitable for more than
> one. Again. I'm not speaking about Kevin's guide. I am thinking about those
> coin guides. A new coin collector has to learn at least in the US about the
> various grades (as many as 70) for each and every coin type and design. In
> some respects meteorites are much easier to deal with.
>
> As you point out there is a lot of variability in pricing between
> individuals of the same meteorite. That certainly isn't an insurmountable
> challenge, either for the publisher or the collector using the guide.
>
>
> Good discussion Matt. Thank You.
> This is the what I like about the list.
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/25/11, mail at mhmeteorites.com <mail at mhmeteorites.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Richard
>> I believe that price guides, at least with collectibles,
>> give a false sense of market value. Believe me I would
>> love to get 20/g out of my 350g Homestead, but because there
>> are so many factors that determine a meteorites value (maybe
>> many more factors than any collectible), I know that 20/g
>> will not be paid for such a piece by the small collector
>> pool that exists. Yet 20/g for Homestead, in small slices,
>> is attainable. Any guide would need to distinguish
>> pricing based on a number of factors that you already
>> pointed out. This would be nearly impossible for a
>> beginning collector to comprehend.
>>
>> Kevin's book on collecting meteorites is a great intro for
>> the beginning collector. A price guide would muddy the
>> waters IMO. Rely on your own searches to figure out pricing,
>> and as you know, the knowledge will come from that search.
>>
>> 500/g lunar? I have some. :)
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Matt
>> ------------------------
>> Matt Morgan
>> Mile High Meteorites
>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>
>> P.O. Box 151293
>> Lakewood, CO 80215
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:22:14
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price
>> Guides
>>
>> --- On Fri, 2/25/11, mail at mhmeteorites.com
>> <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Richard
>> > Seems we just completely disagree. I won't
>> reiterate
>> > my points again, but we have survived in this hobby
>> for
>> > several decades since the first large dealers began
>> without
>> > a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a
>> place
>> > for a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time
>> period?
>> > There have been several attempts before Kevin, with
>> no
>> > success. Again the collecting market can determine
>> the
>> > need for a guide.
>>
>> Matt
>> Something I can't answer. I could guess that part of the
>> reason could be that so few dealers and more importantly so
>> few COLLECTORS existed during those times. Things are
>> changing a bit. We all know about the popular TV show and
>> love or hate the hosts, there is no doubt they are bringing
>> fresh faces and cash into the collector market. Many of
>> these newbies will be looking for something to guide them on
>> what to pay. A historic volume, say every lot and price
>> realized would be of historical interest as are the posts
>> here of what long time collectors paid for material before I
>> was a teenager, so lists of Nininger prices or Ward's. I
>> guess I don't see anywhere near as much downside as you do
>> but that's fine.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't
>> use
>> > auctions ad doesn't know what the dealers SOLD items
>> > for. To me a guide like that is not useful.
>> REALIZED
>> > prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data
>> from
>> > dealers.
>> >
>> >
>> > Matt
>>
>>
>> I'm in agreement with you here. Anyone can surf websites to
>> get general prices. In coin terms and maybe elsewhere that
>> is the "Buy" price. What the material typically is purchase
>> by a dealer from a collector is the "Bid" price. Since this
>> market is so thin, I tend to agree with you that dealers may
>> not be willing to share too much information, but that
>> shouldn't be a reason not to try (again).
>>
>> As for your suggestion about doing my own pricing, for
>> appropriate material I certainly do do this. For instance,
>> when I was buying Lunars for my collection, I plotted weight
>> vs price per gram realized. Did you know a certain lunar can
>> be had retail at ~$500 per gram in a certain size range all
>> day long? At least it could be had for that when I was
>> buying. I'm keeping that information to myself, so don't
>> ask, but I know there are more like this out there.
>>
>> Like that esoteric coin segment I mentioned in my first
>> post, there are amazing deals to be had for the collector. I
>> think a guide might be a big help to the community, and
>> especially for the newest members who have just gotten that
>> spark.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --
>> Richard Kowalski
>> Full Moon Photography
>> IMCA #1081
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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--

Received on Fri 25 Feb 2011 06:00:02 PM PST